>>270823690
>book doll complains about reading>>270823283
>unrealistic
Irrational, not unrealistic.
Suigintou is still not a character without this one grudge with Shinku until S2 where Nomad realized they needed to adapt the manga again because nothing made sense.
>Suigintou in the anime feels neglected and not respected by her family.
There is no family in the anime. Only Sui and Sou have a familial connection that they can feel neglected about, the rest is all Doll x Rozen.
>clearly incomplete.
The manga at least had the dignity to foreshadow things (see: Laplace's Demon), the anime's only defense is not having a 3rd season so there are less plotholes I can complain about.
>Nothing to argue besides saying "no u".
You're contradicting yourself saying this. There are times you try to explain the anime did it better, and there are times you fail utterly and fallback to "it's your opinion".
>Not a plot hole if it doesn't contradict anything in the anime.
The anime has a duty to adapt the manga, it can change what it wants, but it's also at the mercy of the story it's derived from. If it adds to the source but can't integrate it well enough or has no reason to do it in the first place, there's nothing wrong with stating the manga did it better, as the anime could have just done it as the manga did, but it decided to be shit instead.
>No, it doesn't.
Explain to me Suigintou without making mention of Shinku.
>it was made better by the anime
Even though Nomad obviously changed Suigintou's character just so they could adapt her relationship with Megu? Not buying it.

>>270823690
Rozen Maiden I is a lot like the anime, Rozen Maiden II is a lot darker and explores a lot more topics that the anime doesn't. Really I feel like the reason Nomad didn't adapt the manga 1:1 is they wanted to simplify the story for a wider audience and they didn't have access to the full story concept.desuboku>>270823388
>She may love father and want to see him again
>but her motivation is purely proving Shinku wrong.
You've already contradicted yourself. And she doesn't just want to prove it to Shinku, but to herself. She feels bad about being incomplete and neglected by Rozen. But of course Shinku pointing that all out and "betraying" her is part of it. Gin was hurt by that.
>which a baseless assumption
It's not. Many of your arguments are just "anime bad because it did things differently". I'm puzzled about you not doing the same to 16bit Sensation (great taste though).
>Meanwhile Hina-Ichigo in the manga fully viewed Shinku as her older sister, because Shinku instead of falling for Suigintou's manipulation, found love in her new sister and took care of her, the anime fails her at characterizing her this much.
We didn't even know that until the last arc of the manga, and no one complained about the story 'falling flat' before that, so there is no reason for the anime falling flat for not having something like that.
>Only leaving a couple dozen plotholes
List them.
>they just didn't like the ending which left Shinku's fate unresolved
I might be misunderstanding, then. Which manga was axed? The OG or Tales/RM2?
>the manga actually ended up explaining shit
Because it ended...>>270823690
The manga is less fun and focuses more on plot, but it still has plenty of fun moments.
I'm the guy arguing in favor of the anime, btw, but the manga is still good. Make sure to read Zero (the prequel) after it.>>270824037
>You've already contradicted yourself
I didn't. I already made it clear that "loving father" isn't a character trait that makes a Rozen Maiden unique (unless subverted, as is the case with Suiseiseki), wow, Suigintou loves her father and wants to see him again? that's CRAZY! Did you know that every other doll wants to as well? It doesn't make Suigintou any better because of it, it just states she is a Rozen Maiden like the rest.
>And she doesn't just want to prove it to Shinku, but to herself.
Tomato tomato
>She feels bad about being incomplete and neglected by Rozen.
Same as the manga, but with the "incomplete" bullshit that didn't need to be added, and look at that, S2 comes around and she loses that as well because Nomad went back on "junku"
>I'm puzzled about you not doing the same to 16bit Sensation
I literally did. Read my post again.
>We didn't even know that until the last arc of the manga, and no one complained about the story 'falling flat' before that
Because it was always planned, and even foreshadowed. It was always clearly heading in a tangible direction and it all had meaning behind it. The same cannot be said about the anime adaptation and retconning cycle.
>List them.
Already did.
>Because it ended...
Yes, and that's my point, do you seriously think that mess that was the Nomad adaptation was actually going to explain shit in a satisfying way after having gone back and basically retconned S1 and Overture with Traumend by pretending Suigintou was always a character and adapting Megu out of nowhere?>>270823955
>Irrational
Her grudge against her sisters for being created is also irrational... if anything, her neglect makes her grudge in the anime make more sense.

>There is no family in the anime.
They still felt bound as sisters and fellow Rozen Maidens. Who else did Suigintou have?

>Laplace's Demon
Agreed. I don't hate him being shown initially as Enju's """friend""" (poor guy) but it was weird seeing Shinku in s2 just go "oh, it's Laplace". At the same time, I didn't miss him at all in season 1.

>You're contradicting yourself saying this.
You didn't argue in that specific line. You just said "the manga did better", so I just replied in kind.
I don't have to argue about a point you didn't argue either.

>The anime has a duty to adapt the manga, it can change what it wants, but it's also at the mercy of the story it's derived from.
No, it doesn't. It could be a 100% different story with different characters just inspired by the original if it wanted to be.

>Explain to me Suigintou without making mention of Shinku.
Shinku being an important part of her character doesn't make her life be about Shinku.
Characters, like people, are affected by other people.

>Nomad obviously changed Suigintou's character just so they could adapt her relationship with Megu
Her relationship with Megu doesn't contradict her previously established character.>>270824365
>"loving father" isn't a character trait that makes a Rozen Maiden unique
True! That doesn't change the fact that seeing father is part of her motivation, unlike what you said before.
>Same as the manga, but with the "incomplete" bullshit that didn't need to be added
You can't compare never being finished and watching the other dolls being finished and loved one by one to manga Suigintou feeling sad the other dolls are getting more attention after she got some.
>I literally did. Read my post again.
I did, and maintain what I said. You were fine with 16bit Sensation doing it and even mentioned it had problems explaining some things but you still liked it, so I don't understand why you're complaining about RM when it also does things great.
>Because it was always planned, and even foreshadowed.
Bullshit, you're just saying it after the fact.
>Already did.
You mean your complaints that the anime was different than the manga? Not plotholes.
>retconned S1 and Overture with Traumend
That never happened.
>pretending Suigintou was always a character
She always was.
>adapting Megu out of nowhere
The anime explains it. Suigintou sets that up because she wants Suigintou back in the fight.>>270824683
>Barasuishou* sets that up because she wants Suigintou back in the fight.
Oops>>270824461
>Her grudge against her sisters for being created is also irrational
It's less a grudge and more so frustration that she's not the only daughter and perfect girl as promised, she only hates Rozen, and because she loves him, cynical that she was abandoned by her father who kept making more daughters and proceeding to abandon them just as he did with her, leading to her declaring that they're all junk, and then immediately accepting the Alice Game because she would get the opportunity to meet Rozen again, potentially getting to punish him for abandoning her. Objectively this is much better characterization than the anime's.
>Who else did Suigintou have?
Kanaria if the anime's story wasn't shit
>Laplace's Demon
He was meant to be the unbiased judge of the Alice Game, meant to declare a winner at all costs. His existence in the manga foreshadowed what was really going on behind the scenes and why Rozen was absent. The question was "why is a demon overseeing the Game instead of Rozen?"
>It could be a 100% different story with different characters just inspired by the original if it wanted to be.
異議あり！it would no longer be an adaptation then, hell I don't think it would even be greenlit if it had the same title.
>Shinku being an important part of her character doesn't make her life be about Shinku.
I asked you to explain her character without making mention of Shinku, failing to accomplish this while pretending you don't need to is quite humorous. Your point would be proven just doing what I asked. As it stands, the quoted text fits manga Suigintou more than anime Suigintou.
>Her relationship with Megu doesn't contradict her previously established character.
Not what I implied. I was saying that Nomad adapted Suigintou by that point directly, brushing S1 Suigintou under the rug. Her actions in Traumend did not match expectation gathered from S1.>>270824683
>That doesn't change the fact that seeing father is part of her motivation
Not any real motivation that's for sure. She only really acts in regard to Shinku.
>You can't compare never being finished and watching the other dolls being finished and loved one by one to manga Suigintou feeling sad the other dolls are getting more attention after she got some.
I can. Hope my latest post explains it well enough.
>You were fine with 16bit Sensation doing it
I was fine with it adapting the story (or not), but not with it failing to explain certain plot points (like the ayys, or anything that happened in the 2 last episodes). I was very upset when the big titty otaku girl was underutilized.
>I don't understand why you're complaining about RM when it also does things great
I'm complaining because it ruined Shinku and Suigintou, took away from Jun's character, added a new doll that makes no sense and that never would be explained because everyone involved died, and made everyone on the internet call my waifu junk, when she's clearly not.
>Bullshit, you're just saying it after the fact.
See Laplace Demon again. The story also flowed linearly enough and explained any relevant mystery that I can make that guess.
>You mean your complaints that the anime was different than the manga? Not plotholes.
They are plotholes as long as the anime fails to explain them.
>That never happened.
"Oh hey Suigintou, sorry I never gave you your tummy, here it is. Bye now!"
Yeah sure
>She always was.
What was her character? Hard mode: make no mention of Shinku
>The anime explains it. Barasuishou sets that up because she wants Suigintou back in the fight.
Not really what I was getting at.

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I was promised a desu this week desu.>>270741121Where?Push desuReceive kolbasu>>270741121That was a lie. No desu for you.

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I was promised a desu this week desu.>>270741121
Where?Push desu
Receive kolbasu>>270741121
That was a lie. No desu for you.